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Abductees & Experiencers

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UFOs: Abductee Vs Experiencer

Labels: UFOs Alien Abduction from http://ufomedia.blogspot.com/2010/11/ufos-abductee-vs-experiencer.html

Good luck America on the way you voted. You’re going to need it. Joe Capp

There are two camps in the UFO community diametrically opposed to each others opinion on the abduction phenomenon. No, it’s not a debate on whether it happened or not; it’s about what it means to the person being taken. The Betty and Barney Hill case is a simple example of this difference. Betty came to believe this was a positive experience while Barney was not so sure. Barney, who was an African American, knew too well what it means when you are taken at night by strangers. Betty on the other hand was a very curious person who felt she had experienced something profound. We have this dichotomy now, only different. Today we find two pronounced groups in the UFO community: “Abductees” and “Experiencers”. The Abductees believe these beings are evil or don’t care. They point to the fact they have been taken multiple times without their permission, forced to undergo medical procedures, and possibly impregnated. They also point to the fact that children have also been reported being abducted. They resent the fact that others are saying “they,” the abductees, just can’t understand what is happening and that their captors are really helping them.

Who are the people who say this? It’s the “Experiencers”. They admit that being taken is a horrendous experience, however it is for a good cause. The Experiencers believe the “ETs” that take them need them but also care for them. They also believe the “ETs” are spiritually evolved way beyond us and we are like little children: the ETs need to guide us and inform us of the right path though the Experiencers. Many Experiencers point out that we humans sometimes abduct animals for their own good but the animal doesn’t know that. This is what Experiencers feel is happening to them. They feel privileged and part of something way grander than just the initial experience. Some come to love their captors and support them.

Many “Abductees” feel this is an affront to their experience. The Abductees aggressively resent the Experiencers feeling is an not only unjust, but downright irresponsible. They point out that you can’t talk to an animal or reason with it so you have to abduct it if it needs something. These beings can communicate with us. They understand us. The ETs don’t need to do it that way. They point out if they are so spiritual why they didn’t even try.

As with all of my scenarios I want to remind the reader that I am referring here to the most documented cases, from the leaders in the investigations of this phenomenon: Budd Hopkins, Dr John Mack and David Jacobs. I suggest the readers, if they are interested, read material by the aforementioned. Today many other abduction /experiencer researchers seem to be more new age and don’t seem to have any rigorous methods of testing the reality of the person they are helping. Many times they accept at face value the person is telling the truth. The early abductee researchers are tough rejected most cases on various grounds including sleep paralysis, active imagination, and even loneliness. Budd, Mack and Jacob were very thorough in accepting only cases that seemed to be, as shown by other evidence, genuine. All three agree that some abductees, have after time, found their abduction to be a very positive experience and can grow to love these beings. David Jacobs was a little different. He believes ETs are indeed up to no good and uses the abductees to impregnate them for an eventual takeover of earth by hybrids.

Inter-species love is a wonderful experience. I’ve had animals all my life. I have loved them and they have genuine love for me. Is this is what we have here- just one species learning to love another? I have to say humans accepting aliens into their hearts would be in most instances applauded. In this instance, for many,it is not.

The Abductees claim what is actually happening on the ships and with the ETs is manipulation. The ETs have abilities which they use to try and manipulate humans. They claim the reason the ETs seem to be caring and helping is they want something. The Abductees state manipulating a human to be compliant makes sense- there are way easier to handle. The Experiencers counter that they have been given a gift; they feel more connected spiritually and chosen.

Who is right? Maybe they both are. The key to this is a phrase I use to use in counseling of young people.. “Feelings aren’t facts”. We have to all admit the anger by the Abductees is not only appropriate but it’s well deserved. It is obvious that no matter what you feel for the ETs they seem to do what they want to do. Those Abductees who remain angry at the ETs, no matter how many times they are abducted, are still abducted same as well the experiencers. Could these ETs be in fact manipulating people’s feelings and could there be some people not as susceptible to that emotional control? That idea may be interesting in itself: does anger block ETs’ control? Has any real Experiencers ask the ETs to stop abducting them and have the ETs complied?I know I can’t judge a Experiencer who has turned a horrendous experience into one they can cope with. I may not know where that feeling really comes from but they seem real.

Are the aliens in need of something they must have? Do ETs pick out humans that meet these needs? Is it possible aliens really don’t want to do this but they have to do this? Is it possible some ETs have genuine affection for their temporary human captors?Even if you believe that Experiencers are accepting this just so they don’t have to deal with the anger and frustration of the abduction experience we shouldn’t judge them. What we may judge is their judgment on Abductees and what they feel. Experiencers don’t know for a fact they are not being used and they should admit that. Many of the experiencers are at conferences and hold their own workshop. The workshops promote this as a positive experience. Many angry Abductees at these conferences will not go or only go once. The biggest problem with the Experiencers is this air of righteousness. I ask “Experiencers”, are you so knowledgeable about aliens and their motives that you couldn’t be wrong? I ask Abductees can’t you understand, and find sympathy, for the experiencers’ need to find meaning in an experience they can’t control?

No one has figured out what the true motives are of these entities who continually take people. All ideas need to be on the table. All people who experience this need to be open to other ideas. This is not religion; we can’t have “absolutes” about an unexplained mystery. We should have abduction groups as a way to channel this anger. They are beings we know nothing about, taking people and children with little regard to the shock it may cause them. We don’t’ know their customs or their true ethics. Until we do have all the facts these two sides are dividing UFO community even more.

The Clip is a Presentation by Joe Lewels at IUFOC and his take on the good ETs.

Joseph Capp
UFO Media Matters.

Posted by Joseph Capp at 10:39 AM

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16 comments:

  1. JohnNovember 3, 2010 at 1:15 PMReply
  2. There are actually a couple of other camps. There is the camp that thinks the entire abduction phenomenon has no physical component; or at least in the vast majority of the cases. (Cases such as Travis Walton being the lone rare exception.)Many people feel the abduction phenomenon is primarily psycho-spiritual, akin to the ‘OBE’ (out of body experience).

    There are those who feel the abduction phenomenon is ‘quasi-physical’, implying that it somehow intersects consciousness and reality on a sliding scale of ‘solidity’.

    Just to be clear, there is very little consensus that the vast majority of reported abductions, and their narratives generally retrieved through the dubious use of ‘hypnotic retrieval’, have any correlation with what most of us generally consider to be consensus reality.

    All that said, there is no evidence that whatever is happening behind the abduction phenomenon, in any form, has a positive agenda towards either the experiencer or the human race as a whole.

    John

  3. Joseph CappNovember 3, 2010 at 4:09 PMReply
  4. Dear David,
    I agree with you on the other ideas. This post basically deals with the two major groups who claim to have this experience and what they think it is. These two groups distinguished themselves from the rest because both claim to know the absolute truth about the ETs. I wanted to know what the reader thought of these two “camps”Thanks John
    Joe
    UFOMM
  5. Bob KofordNovember 3, 2010 at 11:43 PMReply
  6. I think maybe I don’t agree that the counter self righteous bunch gets to use the name, Experiencer. ;)I mean no offense, mind you, I just think an “experiencer” is a cool name, and it is more like a good base name for someone who has a unique experience, related to this unknown phenomenon.

    I don’t really have a proper replacement name to give you, except maybe False Propheteers (FPs).

    Ok…not such a great name, I know, but its what I call them. 🙂

  7. Joseph CappNovember 4, 2010 at 8:25 AMReply
  8. Dear Bob,
    Yes in a lot of ways that names fits but who are the real false prophets the experiencers or the aliens?Thanks Bob
    Joe
    ufomm
  9. AlienstheTruthNovember 5, 2010 at 9:17 AMReply
  10. Thanks for covering this aspect of the phenomenon, you bring several excellent points up! For me, I focus on the evidence. People are being taken, things are being done to them that we don’t understand. All we can do is document and catalog them. Good, evil, beneficial, malicious, who knows? I sure don’t. All I do know is that evidence presented supports the fact that people are being taken.
  11. Joseph CappNovember 5, 2010 at 9:58 AMReply
  12. Dear Aliensthetruth,
    Thank you that seems to be the case. Many seem to look for meaning in being taken. They become very new age. For me this fine but than they become almost practice a type of fundamentalism when anyone points out other facts that challenge their perceptions. This scares me especially if it is the Aliens doing that to these people, what control.
    Like you say we know they are being taken what is happening should be a mystery to us all. However that is not the case some claim to know it all.Joe
    UFOMM
  13. AnonymousNovember 5, 2010 at 5:30 PMReply
  14. Ah, you speak of boundaries and scales of reality that interact with both “experiencers” and “abductees.” I see only semantic differences in the two terms. What remains more interesting are those recalled cases that did not happen at night, when asleep, to be perhaps retrieved by hypnosis. The daylight cases of high strangeness come to mind. In other words, I favor the end of the scale that produces stories by “experiencers” who were nominally conscious when they encountered aliens. Thus, there should be room on the scale of consciousness for a slide rule that accounts for the depth of sleep as well as the nominal state of the subject in in-situ reality.
  15. Joseph CappNovember 5, 2010 at 6:25 PMReply
  16. I don’t believe how you deal with horror is just semantic. There are major differences that many times fits nicely with those of other groups that have been abducted and tortured. Some hate their captors some actually get close. Psychiatrist in fact created a whole syndrome around it.
    Now you take that propensity by humans groups to line up like this and you add mind control and advanced technology what you end up seeing is the same two groups only more pronounced.
    As far as theose wide awake reports does it really matter even that groups have the pros and cons as to what the aliens is doing.
    Joe
    UFOMM
  17. KandinskyNovember 6, 2010 at 7:29 AMReply
  18. Very interesting blog. On the surface, there certainly is a lot of disagreement between ‘interpretations’ of these experiences. One side holds that evil Mengelian beings are committing NAZI-style atrocities against humanity. The other says we’re too inferior to understand and it’s for the best in the long run.Much of the substance of the ‘abduction phenomena’ stems from Hopkins and Jacobs’ work. Neither of whom are trained hypnotherapists and both have been criticised for poor practice and leading questions. The people who approach these guys are self-selecting and have prior knowledge of the abduction phenomena. Biased sampling. From these people, Jacobs and Hopkins (in their own words)select only those they feel are credible. This adds another layer of skewed sampling. It’s like surveying people exiting McDonalds about their favourite fast food parlour and then hypothesising that ‘most of the US population prefers McDonalds.’

    If we concede that their procedures are biased and all involved parties are predisposed to the ‘abduction’ scenario, we should seriously question how much signal is in the noise. It’s possible the two sides are arguing over angels dancing on a pin and they don’t know if there is a pin.

    I know there are other abduction hypnotherapists, but I focused on these two as they are seminal in the current perception of an ‘abduction phenomena.’ Far better research is needed before accepting the scenarios of abduction researchers or their darker cousins: the MiLab crowd.

  19. Joseph CappNovember 6, 2010 at 11:17 AMReply
  20. Dear Kandinski,
    Your interpretation of the what happened with Hopkins and Jacobs is skewed in the least. Dr. Mack the person who studied the tapes and notes of Hopkins (personally) was very impressed by his professionalism, that was the reason he continued. As far as critics, well that par for the course, in this field. I have no problem believing in a minority of cases that support these groups as reported by Budd, Mack and Jacobs.
    Remember there was no “Alien Abduction Research” going on by mainstream because it wasn’t real. Budd was basically doing on the job training on a a job he created. Could he have been fooled sometimes yes.
    We do have some very documented case of people getting abducted apart from Budd, Jacobs and the rest. So it is a credible phenomenon. How could you do perfect work on a phenomenon that is brand new. That is the height of human arrogance.
    Thank You
    Joe Capp
  21. DanielNovember 6, 2010 at 5:10 PMReply
  22. Well written!IMO all-in-all there is probably competing alien groups responsible for different paranormal phenomenon like paranormal sightings, (some) UFOs and (some) abductions and so forth.

    If I was part of a malevolent alien group I would conduct my abductions to mimic already established alien abductions so as to hide my own operation. Maybe my abductions would also involve a benevolent/malevolent twist to leave the “victim” wondering to what purpose…also poisoning the message of previously benevolent abductions. This would also serve the purpose of muddying the waters of the abduction-subject as a whole for humanity.

    I don’t think that there is only one alien race visiting earth and that these are creating ALL this paranormal havoc around the planet. I also don’t believe that solely the US Air Force are daily flying UFOs over the whole globe and have done so since the beginning of the 20th Century…

    Thanks and all the best,
    Daniel Bergh, Sweden.

  23. Joseph CappNovember 6, 2010 at 5:51 PMReply
  24. Thank you, Daniel, for the compliment. I try to write about subjects others don’t touch.Joe
    Ufomm
  25. AnonymousNovember 10, 2010 at 12:03 AMReply
  26. I would agree with Daniel but would suggest they may not compete but may in fact be simply different facets of the same overall study. 17th century Theosophist Jane Leade writes of this possibility as she describes a familiar encounter in her diary:”In the Night, as I was waiting in my wonted solemn Retirement, what might further be administered. I was cast as into a magical Sleep, where I saw my self carried into a Wilderness; where I saw only pleasant, pastoral Walks and Trees, which much suited with my Mind and Inclination there to walk; where I found nothing to disturb my superiour Meditations. In which place I promised my self opportunity, as not willing that either my Name, or Place should be known to any, saving One. But while I was thus pleasured in my reserved state, I suddainly did see one, that was known to me, walking very strait and upright, with a Book reading in his Hand: He seemed to be as one, that would not look awry. But it was said presently, that this Person was a Spy: then presently two more did appear of the Female Sex, both which did make a kind of Assault upon me; but one of the Females was more fierce, and did give my outward Skin a prick, as with a sharp Needle. Upon which I called for Angelical aid to succour me, or else too hard they would be. Whereupon I was parted from them, and saw them in that place no more: A voice, saying, None here shall henceforth come, but such as can agree to walk with thee perfectly. And so the Vision broke up.

    The Interpretation

    “Some Days after I did further enquire into the more full meaning of this Vision, why such should so conspire against my solitary reserved Life: but especially that one, who was in my Eye of more value, because of a known Life of Truth, and Integrity?

    I found this written upon my Heart, Their Eyes must for a while be with-held; they will not you know, till ye can get the new Name engraven, as of precious Stones upon your Forehead. For it was secretly whispered to my Spirit, that in some there might be a refined and spiritual Emulation, as in others a more Gross and Sensual. Both of which I had councel, and caution, how to walk with; so as no occasion of stumbling might be given justly to the gainsaying Spirits: Whose pryings were to see how we would walk, while in the Wilderness state.”

    Jane Leade, March 22nd, 1677

    The Abductee and the Experiencer are perhaps simply opposite sides of the same coin. Whether the whole coin is malevolent or benevolent or simply a reflection of us in both of it’s faces is a much larger question.

    Thanks Joe.

  27. AnonymousNovember 10, 2010 at 12:08 AMReply
  28. The Abductee and the Experiencer are perhaps simply opposite sides of the same coin. Whether the whole coin is malevolent, benevolent or simply a reflection of humanity in both it’s faces is a much larger question. 17th century Theosophist Jane Leade writes of this possibility as she describes a familiar encounter in her diary:”In the Night, as I was waiting in my wonted solemn Retirement, what might further be administered. I was cast as into a magical Sleep, where I saw my self carried into a Wilderness; where I saw only pleasant, pastoral Walks and Trees, which much suited with my Mind and Inclination there to walk; where I found nothing to disturb my superiour Meditations. In which place I promised my self opportunity, as not willing that either my Name, or Place should be known to any, saving One. But while I was thus pleasured in my reserved state, I suddainly did see one, that was known to me, walking very strait and upright, with a Book reading in his Hand: He seemed to be as one, that would not look awry. But it was said presently, that this Person was a Spy: then presently two more did appear of the Female Sex, both which did make a kind of Assault upon me; but one of the Females was more fierce, and did give my outward Skin a prick, as with a sharp Needle. Upon which I called for Angelical aid to succour me, or else too hard they would be. Whereupon I was parted from them, and saw them in that place no more: A voice, saying, None here shall henceforth come, but such as can agree to walk with thee perfectly. And so the Vision broke up.

    The Interpretation

    “Some Days after I did further enquire into the more full meaning of this Vision, why such should so conspire against my solitary reserved Life: but especially that one, who was in my Eye of more value, because of a known Life of Truth, and Integrity?

    I found this written upon my Heart, Their Eyes must for a while be with-held; they will not you know, till ye can get the new Name engraven, as of precious Stones upon your Forehead. For it was secretly whispered to my Spirit, that in some there might be a refined and spiritual Emulation, as in others a more Gross and Sensual. Both of which I had councel, and caution, how to walk with; so as no occasion of stumbling might be given justly to the gainsaying Spirits: Whose pryings were to see how we would walk, while in the Wilderness state.”

    Jane Leade, March 22nd, 1677

  29. Joseph CappNovember 10, 2010 at 7:59 AMReply
  30. Dear Anonymous,
    Thanks that was a very interesting read.
    Thanks again for taking the time to stop by and post that.
    Joe
    UFOMM
  31. paul shishisNovember 20, 2012 at 2:00 PMReply
  32. I would say in observation that Abductees are the Experiencers.How many people really remember being abducted ?
    .3 % ?

    Do Experiencers witness UFO sighting/S *

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